Mending Lives

Jane_Houng: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Jane Hong, and this is Mending Lives, where I'm talking with people from a patchwork of places. Some have had their lives ripped apart by loss, some are in the business of repairing others brokenness, but we're all seeking to make this world more beautiful.

Stavros Mirogiannis was born on the island of Lesvos in Greece. He's a director and administrator of the American NGO When We Band Together, where Becky's Bathhouse provides shower and laundry services to refugee women and children. I set up 2018. Back then, 80 percent of the visitors were Syrians, a nationality my daughter Becky served in Lebanon before she was killed. Now, the majority of people who come to Becky's Bathhouse are Afghans. Stavros has a huge heart. I'm so grateful for his guidance and strong hand. He's a [00:01:00] person who's devoted over 20 years to humanitarian work, with expertise in crisis management, and especially in prevention and recovery from natural or technical disasters. He spent many years as the full time manager of a large reception center for asylum seekers, contributing to many misfortunes linked to thousands of refugees arriving on Lesvos shores. He's been a leader of a search and rescue team for the civil protection of Greece, a mission leader of the Ministry of Public Order to release minors from detention centers, a special advisor to Doctors Without Borders during COVID, as well as the Greek Red Cross during the destruction and reconstruction of Moria Camp. Stavros is currently an elected vice president of the regional branch of the Greek Red Cross in the northern Aegean and an elected member of the Rotary Club of Mytilene. He [00:02:00] says, throughout the course of my life, I have walked with this in mind, a gram of action is equal to a ton of theory. I hope you enjoy this conversation.

Jane_Houng: Stavros, I can't tell you how happy I am to see you here in Athens tonight.

Stavros Mirogiannis: I'm happy too, dear. Thank you very much for the invitation. Of course, I cannot lose this opportunity or this chance to meet you again after a long time. Of course, we have our meetings in WhatsApp group. But this meeting have a more value for me. In front of me, I have a special lady, a lady to work very hard for the [00:03:00] humanity, a lady to create for the humanity. A lady to give too many, too much for the humanity.

Jane_Houng: Oh, okay. Okay.

Stavros Mirogiannis: No. This is, this, believe me, this is the truth and it's words from my heart. It's not a speech. I am not good to write a speech or like that. It's words from my heart and I know very well what I was tell you before and now. So, thank you very much. I'm very happy. And let's talk about your creation and what you have create for the humanity.

Jane_Houng: You mean Becky's button?

Stavros Mirogiannis: Of course. Yes.

Jane_Houng: Yes, and I should explain to my listeners that Stavros has played an absolutely key part in the history of Becky's Button, because, as the director of Becky's Bathhouse, he managed the first pilot scheme of the panic alarm. And a quick recap about Becky's Bathhouse. I set it up in 2018 on the [00:04:00] island of Lesvos, where there were thousands of refugees arriving via Turkey. On Lesvos, arrivals were sent to the worst refugee camp in the EU, where there is no hot shower or laundry facilities. So Becky's bathhouse was much in demand. We had around 80 women and children visiting a day, then COVID came and me managing operations from Hong Kong became rather tricky. That's when I heard about the NGO, When We Band Together, which Stavros was managing. So I went to visit. In 2021, I believe. That's when we first met. Can you believe that Stavros?

Stavros Mirogiannis: Yes.

Jane_Houng: Three years ago.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Three years ago.

Jane_Houng: Stavros as a local man from Mytilene he stepped up and kindly agreed to manage Becky's Bathhouse.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Yes, this is the story. And I can say I'm very [00:05:00] proud about this opportunity and I'm very proud because you believe to me and you trust me to give me this project. The Becky's Bathhouse to engage this project with our project by When We Band Together, WWBT. At last in WWBT center. So, these two organizations operate together for the same purpose, the dignity the humanity the dignity of the humanity, the dignity for the women and children and all these families to live under over difficult conditions in the camps in the camp now.

Jane_Houng: Still the same, right? It's maybe even worse.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Nothing have changed. Nothing changed, my dear. And because this is the system, this is the standards of refugees in all over the world. In all over the world. So, believe me, if we, the humanitarians, activists, the people to try real and the people [00:06:00] to think with empathy. We don't do something about this. Believe me, nothing change in century. I can say in centuries. So, for that we stay for that we still and stay on duty for that we believe to the right projects. We feel the duty to as a man to man to our fellow mens, and of course, we cannot stay to the old. We must to move forward. We must to create more good efforts for the people to need, to have needs for that. We talk about Becky's button, and that is a good time.

Jane_Houng: Well, you know, I'm driven. You know, the history losing my daughter. She was working with refugees and that's why I originally set up Becky's Bathhouse. But one idea I also had [00:07:00] very early on was that I wanted to design and manufacture a panic button. Something that could be pressed and would give someone who was attacked a few vital seconds to run away. I wanted to bring awareness. about gender based violence in the world. It's something I knew nothing about. Well, I knew it existed, but I didn't really think about it until I lost my own daughter and I wanted to empower women. And I had this hunch about this panic button. I think it would have saved her life. And dear Stavros, when I told you about it, you were so supportive. Do you still think it's a good idea?

Stavros Mirogiannis: Of course, yes dear Jane. It's a special idea in the right time. I can say I have seen many too much violence in my life. Don't forget. I was a commander in [00:08:00] a hospitality center of municipality of Lesvos, the Karatepe for asylum seekers. So I host 2000 people for five years permanently 300 families. So I can write a book and I have seen many bad stories and violence against womens. I'm feminist that made me strong feminist. So when you come to me and you present to me your project, this the Becky's Button. And I check this project. I believe to this project because in my mind, I have all these stories, all these reports for the women's.

Jane_Houng: Do you have a specific one that you can tell our listeners?

Stavros Mirogiannis: Many.

Jane_Houng: Anyone that particularly touched your heart?

Stavros Mirogiannis: Okay. So I have take the trust and the women in my space trust me. They feel me like a big brother. I give trust to them and respect. They give back to [00:09:00] me respect and trust. Somebody to speak for all the problems . And I remember one day, Arab woman come to me and say, Mudir, I want to speak with you. And she have some signs on her body.

Jane_Houng: Oh, dear. She'd be hit.

Stavros Mirogiannis: So, I feel this woman she have a problem. Because I take the profile from the family. I know the families. I know all of them by the profile.

Jane_Houng: I remember the refugees telling me that they were particularly like you because they felt that you really got to know each and every one of them.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Maybe I'm the commander of the hospital center or they call me Mudir. Until today when they text me or speak to me, they call me Mudir. So, but it's not the title. It's what you give to the others. And from the first time, from the first interview in my space, we changed our trust and respect.

Jane_Houng: So what did she ask you?

Stavros Mirogiannis: This woman came [00:10:00] to me and say, I want to speak privately with you.

Jane_Houng: Often it's very personal.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Of course we have our safeguarding policy. I have my protocol and ours

Jane_Houng: And a translator I suppose.

Stavros Mirogiannis: We have a woman translator and one more women from the reception area, the protection, she's a protection officer. So, these women stay in my office. And the Arab lady undressed

Jane_Houng: oh.

Stavros Mirogiannis: She want to shine me her body. The signs on her body.

Jane_Houng: And you saw them. That is something for an Arab woman.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Arab woman. Can you imagine Muslim woman

Jane_Houng: Taking off her hijab

Stavros Mirogiannis: In front of a man and look.

Jane_Houng: She did that. She was so adamant. She was so indignant.

Stavros Mirogiannis: No, she want to suicide.

Jane_Houng: Oh.

Stavros Mirogiannis: She think about crazy things and I'm

Jane_Houng: what did [00:11:00] you do

Stavros Mirogiannis: happy because I changed her life. a little bit, I can say, because we can change our lives.

Jane_Houng: We all can.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Exactly.

Jane_Houng: Only ourselves.

Stavros Mirogiannis: So I try, of course, I don't accept this picture, and I say, Okay, I don't need to see nothing more, please

Jane_Houng: Dress up.

Stavros Mirogiannis: dress up. I'm your brother, you're my sister. I believe your words, and I believe you. I don't need

Jane_Houng: To see more.

Stavros Mirogiannis: To prove me nothing. I know the story. I know your family and let's see how we can change the things. It's a long story. The problems comes from above from their country and continue in Greece in the refugee camp. So, my responsibility is to keep the balance and give solution to this problem. What I do. First of all, I I speak with her husband because her husband feel me like his brother. I try to [00:12:00] give him to understood.

Jane_Houng: Did you hint that you knew, or did you tell him straight?

Stavros Mirogiannis: We have a man to man, we have a straight words both of us. And but I use I can say a snake way, like, no, because I don't like to make a judge over there. It's not the right or to give more voices on these to learn the village like, or the hospital center left and right what happened to this family and to this woman to stigmatize

Jane_Houng: So much stigma isn't it? There is so much shame.

Stavros Mirogiannis: More stigma and shame and

Jane_Houng: Yes.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Maybe this made him more angry her husband and to have more problems. So I find him on the street and say my brother. How are you? I'm a gay. Okay. He asked me for his paper. What about our paper? We need to go to my brother in Germany. Okay, my brother, you know, I try to support you. I try to help you. It's not on my hands because it's asylum case from asylum office. But believe me, I try to facilitate that. And of course, that is [00:13:00] the truth. I say true to everyone.

Jane_Houng: You've done so much for so many, I know.

Stavros Mirogiannis: No lies. And you know, I speak true to him. And I say to him, look, yesterday I was to your neighborhood over there. And I heard some voices, some scream, somebody screaming in your house. What happened? Yeah, do you have any problem who screaming in your house? He changed his face because he feels shame. Nobody would want to

Jane_Houng: Admit that they're beating a woman.

Stavros Mirogiannis: He's saying no mudira. We have a little fight with my wife but now we are okay. I say look let's come and drink a coffee. Let's drink a cup of tea together and let's talk man to man about this. I want to explain you about your situation and I want to explain why you cannot do that to your wife. First of [00:14:00] all, because your wife have the same rights with you. She is a human. She is not a tool. Of course, I believe I, I respect your personality. I respect your culture. You are Arab. I respect your religion. I respect everything from you but we have a big, but here your wife is unique, your wife, it's a human being. Your wife, it's a woman. Your wife have a life. Your wife have a heart and she breathe. She's not a tool.

Jane_Houng: And she's the mother of your children.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Nobody can touch your wife, even you. And let's talk about the law. The law in Europe, the law in the west side of the world, it's very strong about the violence.

Jane_Houng: Equal rights. Yes. Okay, so if you want to go to Germany.

Stavros Mirogiannis: If you want to go to Germany . I [00:15:00] try to explain you. Your position is very difficult. You are in a very difficult position now and look, leave it, leave all of that. You lose my trust. You lose my love. Because if you are this man, you cannot, I don't like to have with you even a good morning. So, follow my tips. Follow my words and believe me. And let me know what is your problem exactly. He say, and of course he speak with for his problem. It's he feel zero. He don't have money.

Jane_Houng: Oh, it's pityful.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Exactly psychology.

Jane_Houng: He can't help his family and his wife.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Exactly. So, he's in stress, he's in depressed. So, all this, it's, he's like a volcano. And when he explodes, who is the first person?

Jane_Houng: Of course.

Stavros Mirogiannis: The wife.

Jane_Houng: Yes, the wife.

Stavros Mirogiannis: The woman.

Jane_Houng: Yes. The most [00:16:00] vulnerable.

Stavros Mirogiannis: We find solution in this because I find job to him I drive him to have a job and after that he changed a little bit his life and I learned they have a better life with his wife. It's one of the cases.

Jane_Houng: So here I am two years later, and at first I was focusing very much on women, and these panic buttons are for women. But the perpetrators are men, and I only hope that one day there will gradually be a cultural shift. But let's go back to Becky's Button in 2022 We actually launched a pilot scheme together I shipped 2 000 Becky's Button to Mytilene.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Yes.

Jane_Houng: And I came for one of the events, because I think your program went for about three months [00:17:00] and you'd actually hired a trained self defense teacher. And I remember doing a short presentation myself and there were about a hundred women sitting there. And they were Syrians, Afghans, North Africans, Iranians, Iraqis, I mean, as usual, just such a range of women. Some of them had their children by their side. And beside me, I had Fahima, who was the main coordinator of Becky's Bathhouse at that time, who was translating in Farsi what I said. And then I had a very strong-minded North African woman who was translating what I said in Arabic. And I remember they were totally captivated. And surprised about how loud Becky's Button was. And then what I [00:18:00] found so alarming at the end is I had a queue of women who were trying to tell me what violence they had suffered in their lives. I had a woman from Congo who told me that she'd seen her sister murdered I had an Afghan woman telling me that her husband had tried to kill her. I mean, it was, you live with this every day, you know, that with many societies, especially patriarchal ones, there's a lot of violence going on. And I like to think that the buttons that were donated during that period of time had some positive effect somewhere in Mavrovoni Camp.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Yes. I remember all these moments in our space and I remember from the first day to take Becky's button on my hands, I built the project in [00:19:00] my mind, the pilot project, this pilot project.

Jane_Houng: Yes that was your idea, PAE.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Exactly. And I find the name the same day, the first day. The PAE means press, act, escape;. And we stay on these three steps. Press. Like I have alarm. So if you have, if the woman have the button, she can press the button. And of course she can bring the panic , to the person, to attack here.

Jane_Houng: Give her a few vital seconds to run away.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Exactly. And one of the, a good practice on this, it's give back the panic to, to who attacks you. If I attack to you the first feeling, it's a panic. So think quickly, press the button and give back the panic to the person to attack. That mean. Press the button. Alarm. Second, it's the action. Act. Act against to the

Jane_Houng: [00:20:00] Perpetrator.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Exactly. How we can do this if you have a right training to the act moves to know some moves to escape from his hands.

Jane_Houng: And then in front of the teacher, you gave a presentation and you were the. You pretended to be the attacker.

Stavros Mirogiannis: I'm the bad guy.

Jane_Houng: And she knocked you to the floor.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Exactly. Exactly. We have success on this. Because it's not only me. It's the teachers, the trainers, believe to the Becky's Button. They are very happy and feel more empowered and feel safe with this. So the second step, it's act, do something, move your hands, move your legs. Don't stay like a

Jane_Houng: Frozen.

Stavros Mirogiannis: . Exactly. And the third step, it's escape, run, that mean push, act run from there, go to the light.

Jane_Houng: Yes. Where people will see you.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Exactly. [00:21:00] Go to to the people and speak. We have one case in the camp. A lady come and report to us after we have this pilot project. She come after of three weeks and she report to us like I want to report exactly. I want to report you like yesterday I tried to go to the toilet. Yes. And it's a darker space over there. No guards, nothing. Nobody's there. And. It's close to 12 o'clock at the night and two men stay close to the door of the woman's toliet and they start to speak to her like come with us. Let's have a fun. We are very important people here in the camp and we can support you. We can help you. We can do this we can do that. Of course, she is scared about them. They come very close to her, and they start to have a sexual abuse like that. Yes yeah. They try to, to [00:22:00] touch her or to bring her in the dark space.

Jane_Houng: Oh, okay. Okay.

Stavros Mirogiannis: And of course, she have the button, she have the Becky's Button on her.

Jane_Houng: And what happened when she pressed it?

Stavros Mirogiannis: The alarm start. The guys start to run left and right. And what is the most important on this? He tell me that a guard from the security guard heard it that and he go to where that Where is the sound exactly? And he find the women he say what is that and he she tell the story to him. What is that and where did she find it and like that and he called me

Jane_Houng: To tell you the story.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Tell me the story so I know the story from the two parts. The guard and he's a supervisor of the guards. He called me and say, Stavros that happened before two days. Your organization and you over there training the women's about this. You are behind of [00:23:00] this the Becky's Button project. Say yes, we are the Becky's Button project. We have a pilot program. So the women that work very well and very good. In this case, so that show us from the first time how important it's the Becky's Button

Jane_Houng: And other feedback that I received was that it was very useful for women who were living alone in a tent and there was always the problem of theft because people knew that there was just one woman in the tent and then they were always afraid that people would come in and steal things and because they were all living under canvas and because they were all living so close and they tended to live nearby their people. People would come running when they heard that alarm.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Exactly. The women's in the camp, they afraid to go to the toilet and dress bumpers pants for the [00:24:00] babies.

Jane_Houng: Oh, that as well yes.

Stavros Mirogiannis: They don't go to the toilet. So this it's very important. Not because they live alone, of course, yes. Can you imagine a woman alone in the tent in a camp with 10, 000 people?

Jane_Houng: Yes. And another thing we found is that maybe not all women have to have it, but if the word goes around oh this is alarm that women have. I think that has a deterrent effect as well.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Of course. Yes. And I agree with this. And the woman one more very important for me. It's the woman's give to a very serious attention to this and keep this button for them like a save tool to save their lives. They don't give that to their babies to play with.

Jane_Houng: No That's what we feared, wasn't it? I remember we talked about that. You know, yes. They put it around their necks in their bra. Yeah.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Keep that like a jewelry. Like a,

Jane_Houng: Yes, it's a piece of jewelry.

Stavros Mirogiannis: A piece of jewelry and something [00:25:00] very important to them. It is very important for them. Because of they understand from the first time what is the Becky's Button. For me and for them, the Becky's Button can save lives

Jane_Houng: !

Well, let's hope that it saves more. I mean for me as the donor the more stories I hear of women not being attacked, it gives me great consolation and that's What more can I want, really, as a bereaved mother? And it's largely thanks to you Stavros, because of the success of that pilot scheme, we'd started to get inquiries from other parts of the world. And one of the first ones was Lebanon, which is where Becky was killed. And, of course, it's so close to Greece. And I remember that zoom call we had, that initial call when I was thinking, okay, how can I implement something similar in [00:26:00] Lebanon? And you were very instrumental in me stepping into Lebanon when I did so.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Yes I remember.

Jane_Houng: Since then, we've organized a number of projects, some in refugee camps, but increasingly now, I'm looking at universities and young people. They are very vulnerable, those young women who go to university for the first time. And you know, what university can be about when you meet the opposite sex for the first time and you're not sort of living with your parents, you know, it's a time of danger. And we found the university students very receptive to the idea of learning about what is GBV. What is sexual harassment? I mean, it's a very Western concept really, isn't it? Even though it's in the law in Lebanon. I mean, what is it? So, yeah, I'm very happy with the [00:27:00] progress in Lebanon. More recently, we have an affiliation with the marathon and

Stavros Mirogiannis: I see all these great things

Jane_Houng: in Beirut. And going forward we have an activist in from Pakistan a young single Muslim woman who is passionate about the idea of bringing Becky's Button there. She's a trained psychologist. She has actually counseled 5, 000 women who were raped at a time of flood and sort of general disruption over the last 10 years. There is some traction now, you know I feel I've planted a little seed in Greece and here we are three years later and things are growing. What do you think?

Stavros Mirogiannis: I love your steps and I watch your steps. Believe me. And I'm very proud. I started this project and now I see this project fly in all over the world with all of [00:28:00] us. And we don't like to have violence against the women's or sexual harassment against the women's. But that is the world and we must act. All these women say before with passion to teach other women to empower our women and to have the Becky's Button, they need the right tools. The right tools from the right people in the right time, you are the right person in the right time to give them the tools. Of course you give a match in global, I can say and that you must do. And yes, you must still in this action in this duty. You have the duty to give to the young women to make this global network.

Jane_Houng: Well, I have the story, the very sad story. I've devoted my life to this now. But maybe one last question I'd like to ask you. Is [00:29:00] you spent your lifetime, I mean, you were in the army for a while, weren't you? But then you went into humanitarian work How long have you been working in humanitarian world?

Stavros Mirogiannis: 20 years now.

Jane_Houng: 20 years.

Stavros Mirogiannis: By different positions in many different positions. But my last and very important position for me when I was a commander in the Hospitality Center.

Jane_Houng: Okay. So, I remember because I've spent time with you in Becky's Bathhouse and When We Band Together and I see your dedication and I see the heaviness, let's say, of many people's situation at the time. But there you are day in, day out, serving those people, helping them. What is the motivation? Where has that come from? If you look back on your life.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Empathy. One word. Just empathy to our human fellow. Man to man. [00:30:00] Empathy. If we don't have this feeling, we cannot stay in the humanitarian aid service. So we serve the humanity. We don't work for the humanity. We are a service.

Jane_Houng: You serve. Yes, it's giving.

Stavros Mirogiannis: We are givers, not takers. And we like to give by empathy. We like to give the respect back to the people to have lose their respect they have lose everything properties, lives, money, respect, jobs, dignity. Yes everything. So we are here and by our action and by our project in WWBT and When We Band Together and Becky Bathhouse. We are here to give them back the dignity by empathy. That can say everything what I want to say.

Jane_Houng: Well, I haven't seen you for two years [00:31:00] and you look younger than ever.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Thank you very much.

Jane_Houng: And you have only a few gray hairs. So there's something that gives you tremendous energy and vitality. Dear Stavros, thank you so much for everything you've done for Becky's Button and I hope that you can continue to have the energy and the will to continue to try to make the world a better place.

Stavros Mirogiannis: I hope to but don't forget The humanitarians like us and the organization like our organizations need support, need supporters, need help, need real help, helpers. I was tell you before we are givers. We are not takers. And we approach this case real. So,

Jane_Houng: On the ground.

Stavros Mirogiannis: On the ground.

Jane_Houng: Day by day.

Stavros Mirogiannis: Day by day, 24/7. So, support us to support the humanity.

Jane_Houng: Let's send on that note. [00:32:00] All the very best Stavros.

Stavros Mirogiannis: All the best of you my dear.

Jane_Houng: Thanks again for listening to Mending Lives with me, Jane Houng. It was produced by BrianHouo. You can find relevant links to this show in the comments section. I would not, could not be doing this without many people's support and encouragement. So, until next time, goodbye.