Mending Lives

Jane_Houng: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Jane Hong, and this is Mending Lives, where I'm talking with
people from a patchwork of places. Some have had their lives ripped apart by loss, some are in
the business of repairing others brokenness, but we're all seeking to make this world more
beautiful.

An interesting fact about me, Jane Hong. I was a secondary school classmate of a superstar.
Even more extraordinary, despite the distance geographically, he and I have kept in touch over
the years and I count him as a really good friend. I'm talking about Mike Lindup, a singer,
keyboard player, composer and founder member of Level 42.

Formed in 1980, the band has sold over 30 million albums and 44 years on is still regularly
touring and playing festivals worldwide. I went to one of their concerts in Singapore last month.
It [00:01:00] was fab. As well as performing regularly with Level 42, Mike has released four solo
albums and has written the music to a show called Soho Songs.

This episode of Mending Lives was recorded the day after I went to it in London. Highly
recommended. I should also explain that Mike and I recorded our conversation in my daughter's
home in London. Thanks Harriet! And the cancelled concert we refer to was supposed to have
happened at the British Ambassador's residence in Beirut.
So yes, I'm happy to share that Mike supports my charity, Becky's Button. He spent a week with
Becky when she was four. And that reminds me, listen out for a reveal about the theme music of
this podcast.

Jane_Houng: Hey Mike, I really enjoyed the concert last night.

Mike Lindup: Thank you.

Jane_Houng: Soho Songs. What can you tell our listeners about it?

Mike Lindup: Well, it's it's kind of like a kind of mini musical. It started out with my co writer,
Barb Younger walking around in Soho around 2019, thinking, how come no one's really I mean,
there's a couple, but In the mainstream, there's no one's really written songs about Soho and
celebrated the area as it's such .. And so, Barb suggested that we write a, a series of songs
about imaginary characters in Soho to illustrate, it's kind of present and its vibrancy and also its
colorful past. There are lots of aspects to Soho. The different communities that moved there and
found their kind of safety [00:03:00] there.And the arts and the theatre and, the stuff that was going on behind closed doors. Cheek By Jowl was residential and, the whole kind of, porn glamour industry. And the restaurants and bars, Ronnie Scott's. I mean, there's so much in that small area.

So we've started writing these songs and then it's developed over the years and through the
pandemic and now into performances and it's become a kind of like a love letter slash day in the life of Soho told through imaginary Soho characters. We got about 14, 15 different characterswho all sing their song and now it's linked by this wonderful narration that are director Benji haswritten. And introduces and we put it on at this little venue called Crazy Cox, just off Piccadilly.And it's a lovely space and we have four singer actors, taking on the different roles and some ofit's ensemble and some of it's single. And it gives me an opportunity to just write about characters from my imagination, but style-wise, it's carte blanche. So we have like thedowager of doubly street, which is a kind of scott joplin kind of thing because she's seen it fromthe 20s and 30s and 40s to the girls that are coming out on the raz on soho nice girls shouldn'tgo to soho we got the bin men who come around and clean up everyone's rubbish and Godknows what they find in there and they sing about that. So Yeah, it's great fun

Jane_Houng: It was so enjoyable to me. And all the people around me were laughing at the
jokes and swinging to your music. I mean, the fact is, to be clear, that Mike composed all the
music. And I believe it has great potential. Those characters they came to life with the
combination of how they looked and their the quality of their voice. And of course the music, the
style of the music and the lyrics were great. So, we should [00:05:00] explain that apart from
one trip to Hong Kong, you and I haven't basically met and since we were both 14. And you
came to Cheatham School of Music.

Mike Lindup: Yes.

Jane_Houng: I'd already been there for two years and suddenly there was this new guy with a
Cockney accent. Can I describe your accent as Cockney? I mean, you were very much a
Londoner.

Mike Lindup: Yes, I was. I mean it probably wasn't very broad, but it certainly I was saying bath
instead of bath.

Jane_Houng: Did you change it? How quickly did you change it?

Mike Lindup: Well, I did. When you're a teenager and you've moved to a boarding school in a
place you've never been before, you try and fit in. So I noticed that I started to flatten my vowels.
And such was, The fact that when I went home to London, people say, Oh, you're talking all
Northern now. And I thought, I can't win because when I go up North, they say, Oh, you're
saying it wrong. And then when I'm back down, they're saying, oh , [00:06:00] you're speaking in
this sort of Northern way.

Jane_Houng: It's all to do with identity, the linguists say, and how clever we are at adapting,
trying to be in the crowd by changing.

Mike Lindup: Well, well, I think it's also a survival and safety thing, you don't necessarily want
to stick out. I mean, if you're the new boy or new girl, whatever, at school.
I think it's very rare to have people that are quite comfortable in their own skin at that tender age
to just be being themselves and to hell with everything else you know you kind of you want to fit
in.

Jane_Houng: And you did. Let me just share a few things from my side because wah this is
new boy, Mike Lindup. And you were very serious and quiet, reserved, shy. And we had to It was
part of our curriculum to go into practice rooms to practice for about two hours a day. And I have
this image of you to this day. That, looking through one of those windows, which the doors had,
[00:07:00] so I suppose teachers could check what was going on . And usually people would
have the music on the piano stand and you'd sort of hear scales and, practice. But Mike would
be sitting there with nothing and just sort of gazing upwards and improvising. I have that image
in my mind.

Mike Lindup: That's interesting. Yeah. I've been doing that since the sitting room at home. The
sitting room was my room for dreaming and trying to figure out things that I'd heard on the radio,
picking them out at the piano and making stuff up, basically playing. And I was much more, I
was very interested in trying to work out how to play stuff that was off the records that we were
listening to like Pink Floyd and Genesis and later on for me Stevie Wonder when I discovered it.

Jane_Houng: Yeah.

Mike Lindup: And but also it was procrastination, rather than having [00:08:00] to do what my
piano teacher told me to do, I'd much rather just muck around and sort of wing it as best I could.

Jane_Houng: Yeah the music course was very classical, very traditional. And um maybe for
that reason you found it hard to identify at that level.

Mike Lindup: But the thing that happened that sort of changed it was actually the music director
there, when I arrived, Jerry Littlewood. He came up to me one day out of the blue and said
because I'd gone there as a first study pianist and a clarinet player as my second study. I wasn't
very good on clarinet, but I was having clarinet lessons and I wasn't enjoying them. I didn't enjoy
my teacher and I wasn't really kind of

Jane_Houng: Progressing.

Mike Lindup: Progressing. And he said, what about percussion? And I kind of thought, well,
yeah, what about it? And he said, yeah, why don't you have percussion lessons? And so
because he encouraged me, I went along to percussion lessons. And it was great because then
I was learning how to play the snare drum. And how to play timpani and how to play [00:09:00]
the tune percussion, the xylophone, and the glockenspiel and the vibraphone. But the big thing
was it got me into the orchestra. Because

Jane_Houng: Ah yes. And rhythms.

Mike Lindup: Yeah well I, yes. 'cause that was the thing he said. 'cause he, you'd be good at
rhythm. Now I bristled at this because I thought, how does he know I'm good at rhythm? Is it
because he's heard me play? Or is it because he's kind of like, because I'm mixed race, he's
kind of stereotyping me and, I don't think it was that. I think it was more because he, when I
auditioned for Guildhall, he got me to improvise. He gave me a couple of scenarios. He said,
there's a king coming into his town and his castle and all the people are cheering. I want you to
make some music that sounds like that. So he got me, he knew I had this talent for improvise.
So maybe it spotted also that I'm, I had a Pretty good rhythmic thing, but there's also the other
thing which was maybe the orchestra needed some more percussionists

Jane_Houng: Like I was on the viola for that reason as well.

Mike Lindup: Yeah exactly so, [00:10:00] you know So who knows but the thing the benefit of it
was that I loved playing in the orchestra Because we played everything from the baroque stuff
right through to the sort of, 20th century You know then contemporary stuff. And all the big
orchestral pieces, like the Planet Suite concerts and Shostakovich Tenth Symphony, Stephen
Hough on snare drum next to me, the Planet Suite, Wayne Marshall on timpanis next to me, I
mean, there was incredible, incredible stuff. And we all had to be in the choir as well, that's
another part of it. So when I went to Guildhall, I auditioned as a percussionist. And I got in as a
percussionist. And I don't think I would have got in as a pianist. So, and then I carried on playing
percussion and then my dad had bought me a drum kit, so I was playing drums. And when I
eventually met the first guy from what would become Level 42, I was a drummer. So and none
of that would have happened if Jerry Little hadn't suggested I take up percussion lessons.

Jane_Houng: I think it's fair to say that we were extraordinarily privileged to have [00:11:00] that
opportunity to go to a specialist music school for free. No, oh no, no, no, ok won't go into that.

Mike Lindup: No, not for free.

Jane_Houng: My parents were both professional classical musicians and couldn't rub a penny
together. So I was on a scholarship, but whatever. It was, there was funding there for people
who showed some talent, but didn't have any money. But It was a very unusual curriculum in the
way that the third of the time was devoted to music, singing, practicing the theory of music, the
history of music. And I'd like to explore in this podcast a little bit, rather than your spectacular
stellar career, as a pop star for level 42 and your solo albums. And what we can talk about that
as well, but I'm very aware the older I get that the values that were imprinted on me, let's say, at
that stage, have had a very profound influence [00:12:00] about who I am. We were not
measured by our intelligence and IQ. There was not great pressure on academic. We were all
our own individuals with our own unique talents and music. Music is expression. Music is was
just the stuff of our life, wasn't it? To go there at the back of the percussion and know you have
to play that. And then I was a pianist then, to have to perform and the joy that it gave my
grandma, let's say, who always turned up whenever I played. These are such meaningful
memories to me. And I think in the light of all the difficulties that have come since music has
been a great way to override the nitty gritty of what happens as you get older?

Mike Lindup: Yeah, I realized, I suppose I already realized, but particularly during the pandemic
I [00:13:00] was living up in Scotland, living alone and the radio was a big part of my
companionship because, we weren't allowed to socialize. And see anyone and I was listening to,
BBC Radio 4 and Radio 3 a lot. Also going on YouTube, but you know, music, I've rediscovered
a lot of my music collection during that time and kind of fell in love again with the thing that
brought me to it in the first place. And I remember there was a time there was a moment at the
beginning of that horrible After that horrible christmas in 2020 when it was cancelled with about
five days notice and everyone's plans just went out the window. I remember on new year's day. I
tuned in live on youtube to the vienna followed vienna philharmonic's new year's day concert,
which they always do. And they tend to always finish it up with the Blue Danube, which is a
piece that everybody knows. And, [00:14:00] but there was something about hearing it at that
point after that kind of, if you like that enforced loneliness of Christmas, knowing that there are a
lot of people in the cinema situation and you could almost sense it from the orchestra that they
were playing it and that they knew that it meant so much to people. And I heard it in a way that
I'd never heard it before. And I was absolutely in tears.

Jane_Houng: That reminds me of the Titanic going down. And that string quartet just said,
We're going to play to the end. We know we're going to drown. It's an absolutely true story, isn't
it? And they just kept playing. Yeah.

Mike Lindup: Yeah, I mean, I would have done the same thing in that situation.

Jane_Houng: The power of music. I think of my father. He couldn't walk very much towards the
end, and he was a professional clarinettist with the Halle Orchestra, so music was in his blood.
But he would say, Jane, I just, I'm perfectly happy just listening to music. Music is enough and
I'm enjoying it in a way that I I never did when I was younger [00:15:00] because I didn't have
time. And I think of myself also in a very difficult situation in 2001. And a very good friend of mine
just said to me, Stop thinking. Don't think anything. Just sit down and listen to music. And I
listened to Barber's Adagio for strings. And it helped me get through that night. When I got the
news about Becky, I just wanted to listen to Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 22. I think it's, yeah, E
flat. And that kind of bittersweet love, joy, poignant sadness. It was music that led me to a place
where I could achieve just a iota of peace in that difficult time Does that make sense?
Mike Lindup: Yeah, it absolutely does because it Music has the power to speak if that's the right
word, which it isn't. In a way that cuts [00:16:00] through everything and kind of connects you to
a deeper place. And maybe, connects you to deeper feelings and maybe difficult feelings that
you don't normally want to acknowledge, but somehow when music is there, you can allow
yourself to just kind of let go.And be in that moment. And then music carries you. I mean, music can do so many things, but Ithink particularly when, when times are difficult. I've had instances where people have come upto me. And said that a particular level 42 song meant so much to them. And I can think of oneparticular example, if you don't mind me.

Jane_Houng: Oh please.

Mike Lindup: Which it was I was doing a self development course back in about 1997 .
With a company called Landmark Education, all about sort of self discovery and finding out how
you take and how human beings take and like as a suggested model to give you [00:17:00]
insights. And in the break I met a guy there and he's a young guy and he's South African. And
he said, I said, I have to tell you that, your music has meant so much to me because I was
conscripted to go and fight in Angola for the South African army. And he was a kid and we're all
kids. And it was a horrible situation, but there, as happens during war, they're often down times
where like nothing's happening. And I said, we used to put on your running the family album and
no one would say a word. We'd just listen to the music and it helped us. It helped us
enormously.

Jane_Houng: I wonder whether they got up and danced or cried or something. It evoked
emotion.

Mike Lindup: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I just think it was kind of like, it express the
inexpressible was sort of what I got from what he was saying.

Jane_Houng: Expressing the inexpressible, yes. That's what music can do. And does do. Yes,
we respond in a visceral level, don't we? I mean, I think the physicists talk about how we're all
vibrations and music [00:18:00] is vibration.

Mike Lindup: Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's enough research, especially recently coming
out about, how good music is for kids, for, for brain, connections and cognition. It has so many
levels. And so I get very annoyed and upset when I hear people. A, either talking about banning
music, like, some parts of the world, they say, music is forbidden. I mean, how dare you? And
then other, like, closer to home, when people who are in positions of power and government
seem not to consider music or the arts as being as important as, maths or English literature. You
take music away. If you were to actually turn a switch and so that we had no music at all
available anywhere in the world for like two weeks and then you see what people would be
doing. They'd be going mad.

Jane_Houng: Yes, I think it's fair to say that music is a cultural universal there. That human
beings, for whatever [00:19:00] mysterious reason, respond to music.

Mike Lindup: Absolutely. Music and dancing is one of the first things that we did. Would be to
make sound communally. It's a way of bounding ourselves as a community. It's a way of
communicating, obviously. Moving the body, and singing or hitting on a stick or whatever, and
other people joining in. I mean, something happens. Like you say about the vibrations. When
people are in a room listening to the same piece of music, something happens to them and
there's an alignment there, and it's been measured.

Jane_Houng: That reminds me of something we did at the Rebecca Dykes Writers a couple of
weeks ago in America. We had a Sufi. And oh, am I going to remember the name of what she
did? Maybe you even know it. But basically, we were in a circle. And we had to say this word,
hoo hoo hoo. It was described as a dance, but we were sitting down, and then we had to move
together. So, we were sitting, but we had to go, hoo, moving to the left. Back, hoo, and then to
the right, hoo. hoo [00:20:00] hoo Like that. So moving to the right and left with that very simple,
but according to Sufi, very profound. It's the equivalent of Om. Yes. In Vedic.

Mike Lindup: Yes.

Jane_Houng: And there were about 30 of us. And the energy, there was something happened
in that room after doing it about 10 minutes. And we were from all over the place Americans, but
very diverse. And it was powerful and uplifting and nobody wanted to leave afterwards. We just
sat there and smiled.

Mike Lindup: Yeah.

Jane_Houng: Well, I'm sure you and I could talk a lot more about this element of music and I'm
very interested to tell our listeners about what we were hoping to do in Lebanon with regard to
you doing a concert in music, but just before that and in the context of we're talking about
Mending lives. Music is a way to uplift, to heal, to harmonize. What about you as a composer of
songs, Mike? [00:21:00] I understand that in level 42, you didn't tend to write the lyrics. You were
more the music guy. But now you've got your solo albums, you're doing both.

Mike Lindup: Yes, I was one of the music guys because we, most of the songs in Level 42 are
collaborative, musically as well but not so much lyrically. I did a bit of lyric writing in Level 42 but
not much because the other guys, A, were so good and I was a bit intimidated by the fact that
they seemed to just be able to pour out these lyrics and reams and reams and then edit it down
and so on. And for me it was like, Trying to squeeze blood out of a stone to get more than a
verse and so on.

Jane_Houng: But now you do and I think it's how about this? The common themes seem to be
love, of course. Universality. Yes. Energy. Homogeneity? We're all one, that type of thing? What
can you share about the inspiration of your lyrics? Because I think, to me, well, to [00:22:00] me,
they're very healing when I listen to them.

Mike Lindup: Thank you. I would say that I write it as I can imagine other people do. It's from
my life experience. So I write what I see and where I'm coming from. But I also, when I'm writing
I'm aware that that I have an audience that will be listening to what I write. And therefore there's
a responsibility to not filter what I write necessarily, but I want there to be something of value in
my experience. Whether it's a personal experience of love or loss or, whatever. Or it's talking
about, we should make the world a better place. But, you can't just say that. I mean, you can
say that, but it just comes across as a cliché. But what you can talk about is what your
personal view is of, what people are and what they are like and And that, from my experience of
being lucky enough to travel all over the world and [00:23:00] play to all different people. And
you just meet people and, we are pretty much all the same, even though we're different cultures
and, races, religions, beliefs, non beliefs Everywhere I've been, you can pretty much you can
get on with more or less anyone. And that we have far more in common with strangers than we,
how can I say that? We have far more in common than we don't. Sounds funny to say it like that
way. And so my I feel it's kind of part of my job is to make those connections and invite people to
sort of look upon other people as being, they're brothers and sisters and just have respect for
differences rather than, oh, we're this and you're that. And but I, I don't really think about that in
a conscious level while I'm writing. It's probably in the background. Because the other thing that
happens when you're writing lyrics, I used to write poetry and when I was at school. And I love
writing poetry. [00:24:00] And I used to think when I was being self critical, particularly in level
42, comparing myself, unfavorably with Phil and Boone as lyric writers. Oh, I'm just, I, I haven't
got what they've got. They're very opinionated. They're very outspoken and I need to be that to
be a good lyricist and I've realized that no I don't I just have to speak my truth and

Jane_Houng: You're a spiritual person, aren't you Mike? Tell me about your spiritual beliefs.
Mike Lindup: I my personal belief is come over many years of living life and then, reading
different books like, Kahlil Gibran or the Neil Donald Walsh Conversations with God series of
books. Which I found very inspiring, Jonathan Livingston Seagull, um, Autobiography of a Yogi,
more recently. Which I knew about and I studied with an Indian spiritual teacher for quite a few
years. And it, it seemed to me that the people that [00:25:00] are making the most sense, talking
about this area of spirituality and religion, are the people that are not stuck fast to one particular
tradition, which says, this is the way and everything else is nonsense. Because I just saw the
kind of, the main teachings of, be a good person,

Jane_Houng: brothers and sisters.

Mike Lindup: Exactly. I mean.

Jane_Houng: Help your neighbor.

Mike Lindup: Exactly. Most of the religions talk, talk about that.

Jane_Houng: They all do.

Mike Lindup: And the prophets and they've come here to sort of raise us from a kind of small
minded, traits that maybe we can't even see because we're blind to them. And I grew up in the
sixties as well, my mom had a copy of desiderata on the wall of the hallway. And, so I used to
read it all the time cause I was sitting there, waiting for the phone to ring or whatever. And the
days you had to wait for the phone, go placidly amid the noise and haste. And, with all its sham,
drudgery and broken dreams it's still a beautiful world. And [00:26:00] Listen to everyone, even
the dull and ignorant, they too have their story. All of those sort of mantras

Jane_Houng: were permeated let's talk about your month just for a minute. 'cause isn't she an
extraordinary woman? 99 now?

Mike Lindup: Yes.

Jane_Houng: From the a half Wind Rush . Oh,

Mike Lindup: 99 and a half.

Jane_Houng: Mike,

Mike Lindup: Yeah she's, she is in her home and she sleeps in and out of sleep a lot. And
sometimes she's coherent, sometimes less coherent. She's lost her eyesight to some degree.
She lost her hearing to some degree. But she still recognizes me and my sister, which is
amazing. And

Jane_Houng: And you think of the vagaries in her life, extraordinary ups and downs.

Mike Lindup: Yeah. Yeah.

Jane_Houng: Now what's her secret? How did she get through them?

Mike Lindup: Well, I think, she had that kind of old fashioned resilience. I think that there was a
generation that were built that way. She's of the war generation now. She joined up when she
was 18, served in the war overcome all kinds of things. Overcame prejudice like she and some
companions [00:27:00] travels through America to get to New York, to get the Queen Mary
across to Scotland in 1943. And because they were Belizeans, they were being accompanied by
a officer and they got in the wrong queue at Miami and cause all the black people saying, you
guys should be in the queue with us. Your dark skinned kind of thing. We're not part of your
thing. We're from, British Honduras as was, and we're going to serve in England, and all of this
silly segregation has got nothing to do with us. So she experienced that she had to stand up for
herself. My dad left my mom when I was about four, it was a long difficult divorce for her. The
house was threatened, I mean, I couldn't understand this as a kid, of course , how can, how can
my nice dad be threatening my mom? My dad and my mum there'd be arguments on the
doorstep after my dad brought me and my sister back and I couldn't understand. I didn't like the
arguing. I still don't like arguments to this day. I [00:28:00] mean, I'm learning that it's a part of
life and a part of communication and to be able to, if you like, argue, I mean, consciously, it's a
dreadfully overused word, but to be able to sort of, speak what you want to say and argue
against someone, but sort of stand your ground at the same time, and not sort of kill them and
cut them. I was saying to your daughter earlier that, we live in these times where it's so
polarised, in these days of, you take one side, and, you defend that. You're either on that side or
you're on that side. And I've always, always kind of thought it doesn't have to be that way.
There's always a middle way, and you can, what's the phrase? You can live with your differences. If you're grown up enough, you can say, okay, I don't agree with you. But let's agree
to disagree to disagree. That's that's the thing, you know There doesn't seem to be much
agreeing to disagree at the moment and It's kind of fueled by the the media and social
[00:29:00] medias, like, are you with this? Are you against that? If you're against that, how can
you then, listen to the other side of the argument? It's like well, how do we progress unless we
can listen to the other side of the argument?

Jane_Houng: Would you agree that we're getting to a stage in the history of humankind that if
we don't begin to listen to each other and change and on the understanding that we do have all,
whoever we are, require basic things in our life, like fresh water and peace, harmony
Something's got to change. We cannot tolerate further polarization. Things are just going to
crash and burn, aren't they?

Mike Lindup: I think it's been said that we are in moving into the Aquarian age. And the
Aquarian age is about leveling up. It is about egalitarianism, And I've always been. of a more
kind of politically socialist persuasion because I think a lot of the ideas of looking after [00:30:00]
people and making sure that no one falls off into really bad times, I think is a good thing. The
people who are richer should pay tax in order to support the people who are poorer. I think that's
a good principle. And it seems as though maybe we have to move into an extreme to really see
how bad things are. To then decide okay, we need to make a change and it's going to be come
it's going to come from people the sort of the groundswell of people saying enough is enough
and voting with their exes on their ballot boxes or whatever or you know getting together in huge
groups to say look, this is wrong. I think we live in interesting times. And like the problem of the
media of all kinds is that we hear about so much that happens. But we don't hear about the
good stuff that happens in the world. We hear always hear the news headlines always lead up
with who's killed whom, you know who's done this bad thing and so on and it's almost like it
becomes a drug that we become addicted to [00:31:00] unconsciously, it's like we turn on the
radio, you know waiting for the first news items are always about the most terrible events In
humane things that go on in the world and we don't hear about all the great things 'cause there
are a lot of great things that are happening, but you have to really search to find it. And often
when you do hear about it, it's like a little side item at the end of these, oh, by the way, and then
this nice thing happened, but mainly the world's a bad place.

Jane_Houng: So when my daughter was killed, the news went round the world. We had to
spend our first few days talking with lawyers, getting various injunctions because of some
photos that people had taken. There were letters to many newspapers, suggesting that she was
a loose woman. All ghastly. But almost certainly sold newspapers. I'm very cynical about all this.
I go to [00:32:00] Lebanon, for example. Well, I'm not going this time because this isn't a good
example. But Lebanon. Oh, such a dangerous country. And your daughter was killed there. You
shouldn't go there. But actually, when you go, you're on the streets. I'm not saying it's not
dangerous, but, it's a vibrant community with lots of lovely, dynamic, interesting people. We're
not going to Lebanon this time, Mike, because of Alas, the war situation which people are
reading about in their newspapers now. Maybe we'll just end this podcast just chatting a bit
about that and what we hoped so dearly. Well, that if you came and you played and performed
some of the songs with these Humanitarian lyrics, that's what they mean to me, that we would
move people in a way that they would think, wow, it [00:33:00] was really sad that Becky lost the
life she did and it was in my country, but I'm going to do more to make sure that it doesn't
happen to anyone within my family. In other words, to kind of move people emotionally through
music in order to make a shift in behavior.

Mike Lindup: Well, that's a big ask, Jane.

Jane_Houng: I believe in you.

Mike Lindup: Obviously, there are different levels of this. So, there's the level of being a creator.
You want, I mean, I don't create music just for my own enjoyment. I want other people to be
enjoy it and further than that, be affected by it. And

Jane_Houng: Level 42, Mike.

Mike Lindup: Not necessarily be influenced by it, but you know there's an ego part of it where,
you know, yes, it's very satisfying to have lots of people shouting and clapping and it's an
amazing life. But I've realized over the years that from the example of the guy from South Africa
that, you record an album and you just, or you record a [00:34:00] song, you have no idea about
what the journey of that song is and what impression it might make. There's a series on BBC
Radio 4 called Soul Music where they'll take one track by somebody and they'll talk to six people
where that song has had a massive, made a massive difference in their life in all kinds of
different ways. So, and I've heard stories about people, even where you think a lyric is quite
explicit about what the song is about. People hear different meanings. They make it mean
something else to them that's relevant to their listening. So there's a kind of alchemy in
songwriting. So yeah I want to raise the vibration of all people on this planet through music. That
is my, I've identified that as my life purpose. Now that's, it's very grandiose and some might say,
rather arrogant. But I believe that at its highest level, is what music can do. But, I'm not
[00:35:00] sitting in the studio thinking, Right, so every word I write has got to, make the planet a
better place.That, I mean, that would be a very restrictive place to start from. I've got to start writing about, well, what is it that moves me? Or what is it that, that gets me going? Or what is it that annoys
me? What do I want to have a rant about? I mean, it can start anywhere. And that's where it will
start. And then, as the song develops or as the music inspires the lyrics then I will try and you
know create something that feels like a satisfying telling of whatever story that is

Jane_Houng: So what was it that inspired you to contact me and say hey, I've heard about your
Becky's button project in Lebanon you're raising awareness about a sexual harassment and can
I do anything to help?
Mike Lindup: Well, I mean, it was because you'd come across to the UK last year, you had your
birthday meeting and a load of our contemporaries from school. We all met up and had a
wonderful lunch and [00:36:00] stuff. And and then you told me that you were starting this
podcast and first thing is you wanted to put a music theme to it and there was a piece of music
that your daughter wrote that I re-recorded and,
Jane_Houng: Oh, it's the music for this podcast, guys!
Mike Lindup: Exactly,
Jane_Houng: it was composed by Becky.
Mike Lindup: It was composed by Becky. And then I reinterpreted it.
Jane_Houng: Thank you so much, it's beautiful.
Mike Lindup: And it's a lovely piece. But then, you were talking about what you wanted to do
with this podcast and where you want to take it. And then I made the fatal mistake of saying, is
there anything I can do to help.

Jane_Houng: Fatal? Have I tried to kill you?

Mike Lindup: And then you said, Oh, what about doing a concert in Beirut. And so.

Jane_Houng: So sorry.

Mike Lindup: Yeah, it was all set. I mean, there was also a snap election. It's got in the way.

Jane_Houng: Yes. That's the main reason. Well, according to the ambassador. Yeah.

Mike Lindup: So, it may, hopefully it will happen again.

Jane_Houng: I hope we can go to Pakistan. I hope we can go to India. I'd like to go everywhere
with this simple [00:37:00] message and let's see what happens. The basic message is raising
awareness about sexual harassment. And my final question Mike, to you as a man is and I'm
sure you are, you meet many beautiful women that you could try it on. What is it that makes you
value women, respect them and not touch them and certainly not rape them?

Mike Lindup: Rape just isn't in my, I just couldn't imagine ever, ever being in that situation. I
mean, probably because of my upbringing. I was brought up by a strong woman. Who was very,
very much a sort of champion of, she was, as I say, a woman of color. She's Belizean, so, very
much fighting against any kind of prejudice and working as an actor and in a situation where she
told me a few stories about people putting her into a box or into a category because [00:38:00]
of how she looked. And also as a becoming an older woman, the whole thing about, roles for
older women. So that coming out of that, I think definitely colored my thing of I saw. How can I
say this? I mean, I'm a man and I love women. But I love, if I'm looking to make a connection,
possibly romantic or something like that, then I'm looking for someone who I can recognize that
there's some kind of dance. There's some kind of spark. There's some kind of recognition there.
It's never the case of Well, you know any port in a storm any woman or do sort of thing I mean, I
don't know how other men think but it would just be completely off my radar to think about If I
wanted to be intimate with a woman then that would have to be a mutual invitation and a mutual
desire. It couldn't be anything else because otherwise what would be the [00:39:00] point? You
know that has no attraction to me. So I suppose that's probably why and of course as I've grown
up and there's more conversations in the world now and there's the me too movement and all of
that A lot of that is kind of like common sense. Well, why would you take advantage? And I've
come off stage full of the highs of the adulation and I have a sense of what it could be. You think,
Oh, well, I could just take advantage of this because of course what people will do is they'll, men
and women is they'll project onto you this fantasy of how they see you. They don't really know
you, but they've seen you on stage. And I mean, the amount of times I've come on stage and
people have said, But you're not like you were on stage, like you're all quiet. You're quiet and
shy, but you know, I want this mic that was on the stage and leaping about and so on. That's
kind of that's another thing. It's a safe place. It's like the music takes you there. You've got to,
you kind of got a job to do to [00:40:00] put the music across to the audience. So you, and it's a
safe place to be larger than life. And you've probably heard that from many different artists. So,
yeah, i would, and I would hope that if you I think it also starts with self love. If you love yourself,
then you're less likely to do something that would harm another person. I think a lot of people
that cause harm, I've kind of cut off something within themselves. They're not in touch with
something about themselves, so they don't feel that what they're doing is kind of harmful. It's
like, they don't care. And so.

Jane_Houng: Yes, that mind body connection has been dissevered for some reason. Often a
loss due to childhood trauma. Yeah.

Mike Lindup: I mean, I've done, I've done quite a few courses, spiritual courses and self
development courses and I studied with this Indian teacher and there are men and women there
from all over the place, all different backgrounds, different countries, different [00:41:00] financial
status and so on. And when you're studying something and you're studying something in
common, it's like you, you look at people and through some of these courses I did at Landmark
Education, for example, get in the room on the first day and you sort of check everyone out. And
inevitably your mind goes, Oh, well, that's that kind of person. And that's that kind of person. And
well, I can see what they're about. And then in the middle of the course, they're standing up and
talking about stuff. And suddenly you're moved by the, how big this person is and how big their
soul is and how courageous they've been in this particular thing in their life or how they allow
themselves to be completely vulnerable and how courageous that is. And you think I've just
written this person off based on my assumptions about them I'm not knowing anything about
them and that was a real eye opener because I thought there's so much more to people If you
give them the right environment.

Jane_Houng: Give them a safe space hold the space encourage them to speak from [00:42:00]
their heart. Well, I think we've done a lot of speaking from the heart in this last 40 minutes or so.
I've been talking with my dear friend, Mike Lindup superstar, Level 42, presently recording more
songs for a new album, and I hope that between us, some of you are inspired to listen to some
more music.

Mike Lindup: I hope so too.

Jane_Houng: Thanks so much, Mike.

Mike Lindup: You're welcome.

Thanks again for listening to Mending Lives with me, Jane Houng. It was produced by Brian
Hou. You can find relevant links to this show in the comments section. I would not, could not be
doing this without many people's [00:43:00] support and encouragement. So, until next time,
goodbye.