Mending Lives

Jane_Houng: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Jane Hong, and this is Mending Lives, where I'm talking with people from a patchwork of places. Some have had their lives ripped apart by loss, some are in the business of repairing others brokenness, but we're all seeking to make this world more beautiful.

Rochelle Potkar is an Indian fiction writer, screenwriter, and poet based in Mumbai. Notable works include The Arithmetic of Breasts and Other Stories, Four Degrees of Separation, Paper Asylum, Bombay Hangovers, and her latest poetry collection called Coins in Rivers. Rochelle is an alumna of Iowa's International Writing Program, and was a Charles Wallace Writers Fellow at the University of Stirling in Scotland. Her poetry has been shortlisted for a number of prestigious awards, including [00:01:00] the 2019 Gordie Boy Poetry Book Prize in New York, and India's Rabindranath Tagore Literary Prize in 2020. I count Rochelle as a good friend. She's beautifully well spoken, humorous, and compassionate. I caught up with her in Nepal at the New York Writers Workshop, where she presented workshops and panels. I highly recommend her latest poetry collection, Coins in Rivers.

Jane_Houng: Rochelle, we meet again.

Rochelle Potklar: Hi, Jane. That's lovely.

Jane_Houng: Isn't it? The last time was in Macau, I believe, at a writing [00:02:00] workshop, and now we're in Nepal.

Rochelle Potklar: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jane_Houng: Do you come to Nepal often? Have you promoted your latest book here?

Rochelle Potklar: No. In fact, this has been, I visit after 15 years almost to Nepal, and I'm with my new book, Coins and Rivers. So, so enjoying this experience.

Jane_Houng: I'm really looking forward to talking to you more about that because I think the essence of this podcast should be the power of poetry to men lives. And of course, I have read previous poet, your previous poetry, and I'm sure that your latest book will not disappoint in any way with that regard.

Rochelle Potklar: Thank you.

Jane_Houng: And I have to tell our listeners. That the extraordinary coincidence is that the week before, i. e. last week, I was in Goa. I went to an Ayurvedic retreat, which is something I'd always wanted to do. And when we met [00:03:00] yesterday in this latest meeting, you said, Oh, I'm from Goa.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes. Yes. I'm from Goa and I live in Bombay. So we are called the Bomaikers.

Jane_Houng: Bomaikers I like that.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes. And we always have two hearts because Goa is so laid back and Bombay is so clockwork. So

Jane_Houng: Interesting. So how long in your life have you spent living in Goa and how much does it inform your writing?

Rochelle Potklar: So Goa is ancestral land, ancestral house. My, my great grand family, grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles live in Goa, but we lived in in Kalyan, which is a small town near Bombay. So a lot, but we went there every May holiday. So all our childhood memories are shaped around the mango and the sun and sand and the escape because after that you got your exam results. So we cousins took that as an escape and Goa shapes [00:04:00] a lot of my thinking, the way I craft my characters also the belief systems we have. We love nature more. I think a lot of history that Goa has, the folklore and similarly Bombay. I think I'm shaped by both these places.

Jane_Houng: My observation after talking to Goans and I suppose they were taxi drivers and people who were serving in the hotel was that there's been great continuity in Goa because of the history, the Portuguese were there for 400 years and it was a happy union dare I say. The Portuguese didn't interfere too much. They respected the culture and they actually embraced it themselves. Is that fair to say?

Rochelle Potklar: Yes, and they did shape a lot of the Goan presence even that's there today, the religion that's there. There was a Goan inquisition that happened at one point in time and not just a Spanish inquisition far away in Europe. So a lot of us were Hindus [00:05:00] to begin with 451 years ago, and we are now practicing Catholics and there are so many beautiful churches all around Goa and even the Hindus, the Goan Hindus live peacefully. Goa is a land of great peace.

Jane_Houng: I heard that from many people. They said, look, we can live in harmony here. Yes and I was interested by that. I heard that, let's say a typical local would identify by eye, which caste the people on the street were, but there was some kind of respect.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes, because caste system, I don't think can ever I'm not sure about being eradicated, but I don't think it can ever be forgotten. Like even us Catholics, we are not supposed to remember our castes, because that was pre-conversions, but no one forgets it because you see it's a hierarchy and people love hierarchy, especially if they are on the top.

Jane_Houng: One thing I learned, was that when in India Goa back from [00:06:00] Portugal 1961, right?

Rochelle Potklar: Yes.

Jane_Houng: The Indians government was very fair in terms of land distribution and also towards the end of the Portuguese power. They were actually saying to people that if they convert to Catholicism, they can have some of the houses and the land that the Portuguese themselves had. I found that very interesting.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes, that is interesting. But on the other hand, I feel that religion has a major role to play in politics from time immemorial, whether it was Goa or whether it's India today, whether it's the world, ethnicity, race, religion. I see that they are the signifiers based on which, politics is dealt with. So sometimes it, It's wonderful, like in this case. And sometimes you are like, Okay, let's separate these issues.

Jane_Houng: We won't talk about the contemporary political issues, the forthcoming [00:07:00] elections what can I say, but Mending Lives, I want the notion to be very simple, that we are all from different religions, different backgrounds different castes if you are Indian, but what a wonderful world it would be if we could integrate more and accept each other's differences.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes, truly. And I think that is the pursuit of humanity for the longest time. Jane, I feel so We go on an upward spiral and we go on a downward spiral between hate and love all the time. We have a choice.

Jane_Houng: We have a choice. Now, let's quickly move on to you as a poet and that poetry gives you the voice and your latest book, Coins in Rivers, you've been talking about concentric circles and tell me more about that.

Rochelle Potklar: What I noticed with all my books, the previous ones was paper asylum that [00:08:00] you read and the one before that was four degrees of separation. So what I'm noticing, especially with my poetry, is that it moves from the very personal and the very, private and it expands in circles to then look at family, look at society, look at relationships, then further on to look as a social observer, what's happening in the society, even political poems find place in this book. And then I move further on to the world beyond. I think of it this way. This book is What am I as a woman in the city? What am I as a citizen in the world? And what might I be as an atom in the galaxy?

Jane_Houng: Lovely. I love that. And, in a moment maybe you could kindly read one of your poems. Yeah, I think maybe this is the time now in the context of that because afterwards, I will lead on briefly to what happened to [00:09:00] my daughter and I think the poem Solitary that I've read from your poem is particularly opposite. So if you could can you read that one?

Rochelle Potklar: Yes. Yes. Thank you so much. And just to preamble about Solitary. So this is a small poem in my book. And, long back when researchers were trying to find out how does the male orangutan live deep inside the forest for so many years alone. With a kind of an equilibrium, with a kind of everywhere. So when they research, they found that when the orangutan was a baby, its mother held it so tight to its body, that warmth and love was the foundational stone of and the foundational courage that allowed this adult to live for so long, just solo and happy. So love as the foundation is, I think, transcends centuries, years, difficulties. [00:10:00] And hence this poem.

Like light leaves after years, Iterating the static of spheres, The orangutan exhales warmth, Monographing embrace, Into winter's foliage, As time loses scope. Young as a black square, Nurtured for years at its mother's teat, Beat, emerging from dark art, Growing from. Snugness, luxurious as a shaft, It goes deep into the forest, light into cave, To live alone for a thousand years.

No ruffle, or safety of spring, Meets its spirit. Yet as strong as an inflorescent flame, It cinders. [00:11:00] While winter speaks in autumn's barbed tongue.

Jane_Houng: Thank you so much. As I listen, I feel bittersweet because I know how much the orangutans in forests, not in India, maybe, but in Malaysia are severely threatened by man's irrepressible desire for palm oil. But let's go back to the beauty of that because there is a male. He's living in harmony at peace in nature. He does not fight. He would never commit an act of violence. I like to think primarily that's because of the mother's love, the deepest of love, the inextricable link. And you said so evocatively yesterday on the bus that the connection between the mother and a child, the umbilical cord stretches from the earth to eternity.

Rochelle Potklar: [00:12:00] Yes. And it's invisible, and it's there. I believe that. I don't know why and how.

Jane_Houng: I see your eyes here and I see a visionary and a seer and I do believe that poets are the people who can express this in a very simple but profound way that moves people's hearts.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes, I would like to believe that Jane, because I feel that, we are the failed prophets or the ignored philosophers of the world of a capitalistic world. But I feel that. Every quiver, every shiver of leaf, we can feel that faster, stronger, deeper. And that's why you would find most poets write about political unrest situations faster, they react faster, and poetry being small allows you to speeden up the expression, unlike a novel, which if you have to capture political unrest, you would take a long time to write that. But [00:13:00] in a poem, you could write it faster. in three minutes and it might be the telegram.

Jane_Houng: That reminds me that in the course of writing my memoir, Beirut Is More Beautiful By Bike. I want the most poignant kind of saddest, most difficult moments that I tried to express. I wanted to use poetry. There's something about the, the simplicity, the conciseness, the silence, if you like, that can be added to poetry. That was the form and I've reached out to you, didn't I? And I said I wanted to write some Haibon.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes. And I remember that at Macau, University of Macau, you were writing and writing your Haibon. And I was glad because that form you to express the way you want to express without worrying about form and meter.

Jane_Houng: Now, I think that was in 2018. [00:14:00] The years around there are a bit of a blur. But one thing I do remember, dear Rochelle, that so often you were just sitting by my side at meals. And the kindness of strangers has been such a powerful positive force in my life to mend my own life. So I want to thank you.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes. And I'm so glad I could do any little thing for you, Jane, because I look at you all the time. And I think what a powerful strong person. And how well she works and walks with her vulnerabilities.

Jane_Houng: Vulnerabilities. I'm very happy to expose my vulnerabilities now in all their raggedness. And I think that kindness that you showed was particularly touching for me because I know you have one daughter who must be about 15 now.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes. Yes.

Jane_Houng: How's she doing? And in the context of protecting her from the violence. Yes. That could happen. Yes. Because I [00:15:00] assume she's very beautiful and

Rochelle Potklar: yes.

Jane_Houng: And what do you do? Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about your daughter.

Rochelle Potklar: You know, it is such a common fear for any mother anywhere in the world. And who I mean, you know it better. But Any woman, and especially if you're in, countries that are more populous you are more worried because, of course, the laws might be stringent, but safe than sorry is a is an idiom you keep thinking about. So as a mother, I worry because now I worried from the time I had a daughter, because you always worry about molestations, rapes, gang rapes, kidnappings, whatever violence you hear in the world and in the newspapers. You're not thinking, Oh, it's somewhere far away. You're thinking it could come to your doorstep anytime. And I almost to the point of turning a boring mother. You've worn your kid. Don't go there. Don't go in the dark. Don't go late. And they are like, Oh, but this is what you try to tell them. And, I have been worrying. I [00:16:00] think I was speaking to my friend recently who has a five year old daughter. And she said, I feel, I say, this is a very common fear. We all feel, sexual violence or violence against our girl children. Not that the boys might be far left untouched, but more the girls. So there is this fear, underlying fear of violence or attacks that is there in every woman for her own body and for her daughters. And we also try to fight that feeling and move beyond into spaces of courage and reclaiming the streets, reclaiming our territories, reclaiming our place under the sun, sun and moon. That is a long process and it keeps happening, not just with me as a woman, but now with my daughter and with every mother you speak for their daughters.

Jane_Houng: And let's imagine that this is generational and that there is going to be a gradual improvement.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes.

Jane_Houng: Maybe especially in India 'cause I'm sorry, the [00:17:00] statistics are there, aren't they?

Rochelle Potklar: Yes.

Jane_Houng: The rate of rape

Rochelle Potklar: Yes.

Jane_Houng: And femicide are high.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes. And not just that, even the silent, , the silent, , misogyny or the mild casual patriarchy that's internalized is always there. We have to fight even that.

Jane_Houng: Yes I'm looking very objectively because, of course, I'm not Indian. I see culturally, you've got an, you've got an underclass and underprivileged people.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes.

Jane_Houng: You have the caste system. All right. And then in, in societal, there is also Patriarchy. Of course, it exists in many other parts of the world. But in India given the history and the culture, is it that's a fair comment that you have to be especially careful of your daughters in India?

Rochelle Potklar: We have to be, we have to at least address our fears that we have that comes from the environment. Whenever you open the newspapers, one, there's one gory incident every day. But also I must say that. I can see that [00:18:00] society is talking to itself, whether it's in panel discussions or festivals or on news. We are talking more as a culture. I find more feminists, whether they are men or women, more people coming out and having forward thinking thoughts. Wanting to dismantle patriarchy, wanting to move forward, wanting to respect the woman. So I feel there is that change also happening.

Jane_Houng: There's a shift happening in india. And again, brutally speaking, it's the men rather than the women, right? The women, we take precautions. We're careful. But

Rochelle Potklar: Yeah we can, fight. But it's the men who once they understand that they can do something. That's when you see true change. Because now both of us are in the in pushing the same agenda or pushing for the same equality or safety.

Jane_Houng: Is there a poem in your latest book that might like to reflect? You imagine that you're reading a poem to a [00:19:00] man about what we've just spoken about. Please, don't rush, but is there one?

Rochelle Potklar: There is one actually. So I must tell you a little bit about this poem. It's in two registers. One is that as an Indian English poet, we have inherited language that is English, right? It's not ours. We come from a multicultural and multilinguistic richness, but we have a adopted and adapted English. So we have Indian English, but sometimes I feel like breaking that tight corset. Okay. And getting out of that straight jacket and being improper with English, because why not have fun with it? Why always keep it in, in straight lines. So this is at the first layer, this is what an improper English poem. And the second is mocking the misogynist. Because although I said that there are many men who are feminists and who are fighting for equality for women and getting out of patriarchy themselves. There are also the misogynists who don't know they [00:20:00] are. So they are, as I call them, unaware assholes.

Jane_Houng: Okay, I know that word. It's American, I believe, but I can't wait to listen, please.

Rochelle Potklar: So this one is called Bedding Day and I don't have to say more. I'll just read the poem.

Jane_Houng: Look, and I warn you, I will suppress my laughter because it will interrupt the flow, but I imagine it's going to be hilarious.

Rochelle Potklar: Yeah, definitely. But your laughter will encourage. Okay.

When Santos wanted urgent love marriage in just 15 days, he said, I need girl only for me. She has faith fully for me. He looked for simple things. She should be a non Facebook user. Exceptionally fair, convented, at least matric and virgin, or issueless and innocent, Devosi. Completely non feminist, but an extremist, and compassionate, patriotic to country, with a keen desire to increase [00:21:00] India's military and sports capabilities. Expert in child raising, H1 visa, no bar. Powerful and rich. And congratulations, he found her. Her good name, Priya. From top college, 22 or 21. With a dowry of ten thousands dollars. They went for a special wedding party. With all drinks included. Vodka, whiskey, gin, child beer, strong rum, then old monk. The Marriage Hall. With unisex laboratories for all those gay people. Was near Sharma Sweets and Snakes. Right side to Anus English Academy. Runned by Anu Sharma. In front of Santosh Taylor's Alterations of ladies and gents and welcome tourist office of [00:22:00] We Speak English.

At the backside gate, vehicles were welcome. Only regrets to their visitors and no encouragement of baggers. In trust, we gored. Santos wetted Priya. They look like hero and heron with their crowns, no? They are laughing so much, showing their colgate teeth. In such a type of marriage, go slow. This is an accident porn area, said an uncle.

The gifts were many. Bed shits and Sony erection phones. Organic ghee from attention free cows and condoms in all flavors, like hot air balloons. The only villains were the in laws, who took up the best gifts in compensation. Shoplifters will be prostituted, said Santos, making his big eyes red. [00:23:00] But who were listening?

All males and females were busy eating or drinking. Only their dead bodies will go home, he wrote, neither on foot, nor ambulance. Don't these people know, I am yes for Santos, satisfaction guarantee. Above all, vermins and mens, get my special vitamins. I want two children, both men, yaks, yam, yel, yam, zen.

Jane_Houng: Oh, Rochelle.

Rochelle Potklar: It was difficult writing this poem.

Jane_Houng: In what way?

Rochelle Potklar: It's difficult because I had to research before writing on all the nonsense around like child beer is actually the miss, like it's chilled beer.

Jane_Houng: Okay.

Rochelle Potklar: So we in the hinterlands of India, we make wonderful spelling mistakes,

Jane_Houng: Which I live in China and I see a lot more and more these days.

Rochelle Potklar: So I had to gather a [00:24:00] lot of that before I began writing. But when I wrote, of course, poem is in one exhibition. But yeah.

Jane_Houng: Hilarious, hilarious. Let's hope lots of men read that and talk about it and laugh about themselves.

Rochelle Potklar: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jane_Houng: In a humble way. Yeah.

Rochelle Potklar: Yeah. And this is also, a dig at the Indian organized matrimonial, wherein they want these white version brides, so that kind of silliness.

Jane_Houng: Let's talk about that for a moment. Because it's so convenient for governments to have marriage as the basic essential social structure. So that they can organize for the, for tax reasons, for pensions, for so many things, that this concept of romantic love, that become from our biological urges, we want to we [00:25:00] feel an interest in the opposite sex, if we're heterosexual, of course, but that should inevitably lead to marriage. Now, in India, did you inherit that from the British colonial system or the other thing, other structures that are going on?

Rochelle Potklar: So I think the british probably believed in love, love and then that leads to marriage, what we call love marriage and arranged marriage is what our parents or the traditional way of, sitting people down and matching their horoscopes, which are also horoscopes. But but I think, somewhere there's a fine line between this I believe that love. Should be the reason you marry and it should also be friendships before marriage because that would help you to know the person you're going to live for the rest of your life with and yet we can get it wrong. So imagine an arranged marriage where in other people tell [00:26:00] you that this is right and it's a very logical, conscious decision which might go right in some cases. I have seen successful arranged marriages. especially from the last generation. But I think more and more as we are fragmenting as people, we ourselves don't know ourselves. Imagine our parents knowing us enough to say you marry that person. So I feel it should be a natural love leading to marriage or relationships. Even marriage now is an institution that has been questioned. Do you need a formalized marriage or do you need just to be together? Companionship. So I think we are as a society in India also going through flux, but there is a stronghold of arranged marriages in many cases. Sometimes I feel there is a certain logic if you want to look at the betterment of your children in so you want to look out to watch out. check the background of the person. What if it's like bad? What if it's something is hidden? You don't know about it. But that background check can also be done in a love marriage. When you're getting [00:27:00] married, you don't need to go through horoscopes and all. But I think, we can't completely leave and run away from traditions. So somewhere there will always be a mix. Of love versus arranged and somewhere there'll be the friendship and then it'll finally settle itself. I understand the crux of this is that parents want to see their children happy, but sometimes they enforce that down their throats. And that's the rules that don't work. But otherwise, the intention is clear. Parents want their kids to marry well.

Jane_Houng: And I see it as a question of income as well, because you need to match. Yes. Ideally, especially if you have money.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes. money is one thing there's education because there's what that was a rate card earlier for the men who were educated in the last generations that if they were doctors, they would marry a woman with that much dowry as if they are paying for that [00:28:00] education. Now we have a different situation. Now the women are highly educated and smart and they choose whether they want to be with that guy because they are smarter than the guys.

Jane_Houng: Yes. That's going on in the west as well.

Rochelle Potklar: And then we also have something now which is emerging, which I find very exciting in the younger generation or single, many of the women and men say we want to be single. We love our singlehood.

Jane_Houng: Isn't that interesting?

Rochelle Potklar: Very interesting.

Jane_Houng: Like the orangutan. possibly. But yes gender fluidity. In, I like to think in the younger generation, this is a rejection of those formal roles that males and females have to play.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes. Yes. And especially to do with the biological clock and the next generation coming out of your womb, those kinds of things. Yeah, you want to get away from the pressures of the what patriarchy set in place.

Jane_Houng: And listening to you, I'm reminded [00:29:00] of a time in my thirties when my, alas, my first marriage was failing. And I reached out to an Indian guru who happened to live in Hong Kong. And I remember him. He was a very old man at that stage and he had a shock of white hair and he said, Oh, my, this little shock of white hair is because I have spiritual power. Anyway, he was very impressive, very charming, but one thing he did say was that about difficulties in a young marriage, let's say he said, ha we Indians, we recognize that there are five different types of love. We're going back to heterosexual relationships. Maybe not exclusively, but anyway, there were five types. And I remember him saying, yes, one type is your wife. The love you have for your wife. Yeah. But the other type of love is with your lover. And it [00:30:00] went on. Is that very old school now?

Rochelle Potklar: I think that's very modern. I think that's postmodern. Because yes, you can have so many loves. And now, Jane, we're also I'm hearing a lot of self love. Because now, especially women, I'm not sure about the men, how, what's their journeys like, but women needed to put themselves before everything else. And there's also that happening now in India, at least because I'm following the Indian social state that they want to have a relationship with themselves where they learn what they want, what they don't want more centered and with themselves. And there's a kind of self love that wasn't there in the last generations. Women always put the family and children first traditions first, they sacrifice themselves. On the altar of being superwoman supermoms. Now, they don't want to be super superwoman and supermoms. They want to be ordinary and [00:31:00] hence extraordinary by admitting to all that they're going through, it's becoming a more selfish but selfless and cent self.

Jane_Houng: Centered.

Rochelle Potklar: But in a good way.

Jane_Houng: Yes, because if we are whole as individuals, arguably we need less from a partner.

Rochelle Potklar: Absolutely. And then we we are less we are less disappointed and so are we less needy and clingy. And I think it's a very much more beautiful.

Jane_Houng: Empowering especially for women.

Rochelle Potklar: Yes.

Jane_Houng: Let's move on to your script writing. We do have time and I know that you've written already 12 full manuscripts now. In terms of what we've just talking about is there anything you'd like to respond, maybe the story that you told about something like that?

Rochelle Potklar: Yeah, so in so what I've done is my, in my genres of screenplay, because I'm a new screenplay writer. So for me, if I write the whole thing out, I understand the form and myself better as that storyteller. But I have used like I have [00:32:00] been writing in different genres. There, there was. I've written two rom coms, few thrillers and few there's a psychological horror that is women centric and then there's there are some other dramas, but women feature strongly, but not just women. I also look at men. I look at society and I don't forget that filmmaking or or scripts have to be entertaining because unlike a book that can go into interiority and you read as an intimate experience, film is generally a collective experience, mostly with popcorn. You have to keep in mind the four quadrants. In a way, not all the time of the generations, like you have a mother father archetype and you have the kid archetypes because all of them go to the theater to have the movie with the popcorn. Then you think of budgets, which you never thought of when you were a novelist because imagination has no budget. Reality has budget. So these are the things. But basically I A right, whatever fascinates me or disturbs [00:33:00] me, and it has been from LGBTQ protagonists to to misogynist like trolls, there is an entire you kind of a series, which you know, which has a troll who eventually changes and becomes, he reforms. So I do go after transformational stories as well as cathartic metamorph, metamorphosing stories. Women and men hold equal power in my stories because there's so much to explore about relationships and society through them.

Jane_Houng: Multi voices, multi society, many different themes. I truly hope to watch one of your films.

Rochelle Potklar: Thank you.

Jane_Houng: One day.

Rochelle Potklar: Thank you. And I hope that day soon, Jane, because I'm currently pitching and that's a big art in itself of learning.

Jane_Houng: Yes. It's a commercial world. Absolutely. Yes.

Rochelle Potklar: Time is money. Yes.

Jane_Houng: And the art of following up, oh, yes.

Rochelle Potklar: But yes, fingers crossed, you will see it one day. [00:34:00]

Jane_Houng: Finally then, I'd like to ask you, in terms of the message that you want to, that inspires you to write screenplays and your motive for doing so, which story, let's call it a story because as writers we are, we're just telling stories, are we not? In many different forms. In the terms of Mending Lives, this idea that you've got multi generational multi genre. Which story that you tell in one of your screenplays is the one that you would like the most? To be released in the world.

Rochelle Potklar: Wow. So I would think my first my first story, which is called The Brown Coat or and it's the, I have a novel equivalent of it, The Terracotta Goddesses. I think that would be perfect for this conversation we are having. It's a drama of three women in three different countries. That is, India, Bangladesh and [00:35:00] New York, South Asian women around the garment and fashion industry. And while one woman is in the export business, trying to rise in a career, she's a rape survivor and she has a raped child. So there's a relationship. She's there. A difficult relationship with her son , you have a seamstress in Bangladesh Dhaka City, who is who's try striving to get off the rent and has two little kids. And you have a South Asian model in New York. And who's starving, gone on a starvation diet to and you have a coat, which is the fourth character, a coat, okay, an inanimate coat that is not in a, it's a cloth here, and then it's a cut and stitched as a coat in Bangladesh. It happens to be that the model orders it as a coat to beautiful. Yes. And that's the synergy. Yes. Yes. And it's the coat that connects the three women. And we, I delve into each of these women's lives and it's a very universal story of interconnectedness. Who stitches our clothes or [00:36:00] who makes the things that we love. Someone somewhere is another human being. So we are separated by one degree of separation sometimes, and we don't know how connected we are in this world. So they affect each other's decision, but I think this would be my biggest thesis on interconnectedness. Unfortunately, Although this was NFDC India lab lab selection. And I was mentored by by Philippa Campbell and Vikas Mishra. This, the thing is, what is, we always look at the commercials. So whenever I pitched it, it is okay, how much can it be done with? How much will be the ROI? Different locations. So then you get stuck with those kinds of logistics, but, and then my crime thrillers or my rom coms are easier to sell. But since you asked me this is closest to my heart. It's my first project.

Jane_Houng: Congratulations.

Rochelle Potklar: Thank you.

Jane_Houng: I hope to see that in vivid color and all the imagery and all the the different scenes and [00:37:00] Places that immediately I've conjured in my mind.

Rochelle Potklar: Thank you. I even went to dhaka to actually research on the sweatshops. Yeah, so it became a very personal story then eventually. Yeah.

Jane_Houng: Dear Rochelle, it's an absolute delight to reconnect with you in this interconnected world that we live in, using the power of the internet to our relationship. It's an absolute honor to talk with you. Thank you so much for your time.

Rochelle Potklar: Thank you, Jane. I can't tell you how moved and humbled. I am with this podcast and I wish you to go from strength to strength. I know the charity work that you're doing. I know the different initiatives and I just look up to you and draw so much of inspiration from you. You have no idea about that. So continue on that lovely March with that lovely smile of yours. It's reaching everywhere.

Jane_Houng: Oh, wouldn't that be wonderful? On that note. Let's enjoy the rest [00:38:00] of the day and all the very, very best to you and your family and your projects.

Rochelle Potklar: Thank you. Wishing you the same. Thank you.

Jane_Houng: Thank you.

Thanks again for listening to Mending Lives with me, Jane Houng. It was produced by Brian Ho. You can find relevant links to this show in the comments section. I would not, could not, be doing this without many people's support and encouragement. So until next time, goodbye.